Heavy metal endures not just through the vision and determination of its musicians, but also the passionate work of underground labels and promoters. Amongst these, Italy's Cruz Del Sur Music stands tall, with a reputation for quality and integrity spanning nearly 20 years. So here is the mind behind CDSM, Enrico Leccese, to discuss heavy metal as both a label boss and a fan...
Thanks for talking to Cimmerian Shadows Enrico! To begin, how did you first get into heavy metal? Do you have any fond memories to share of discovering bands and record shops?
Thanks to you James! To show my age, heavy metal and I met in 1981, when I was 12 and in 6th grade. A new kid showed up in my class. He was sort of a nerd; an Italian, but he'd lived and studied in the UK. His Italian was quite bad, but he was funny and we became friends. He introduced me to this ‘new’ kind of music that was popular in the UK. IRON MAIDEN, SAXON, TYGERS OF PAN TANG… I was fascinated by their names, their imagery.
We soon began to hang out at record stores to satisfy our hunger for new releases, but of course we had limited money and limited knowledge. We spent our Saturday afternoons moving from one record store to another, selecting bands mainly by their cover art and asking the owners to play the records for us. But of course it was 30 seconds of the first song, another 30 of the second one, maybe a third one… but no more. So we spent hours deciding which one to buy. There was also a third friend we hung out with, and we all shared our purchases; that’s why I have a limited ‘collection’ of records now. We used to buy maybe one album each then tape it for the other two, so I owned some vinyls, but mostly tapes.
Then it became like a rollercoaster, because somehow metal began to be kind of popular in Italy as well – always as a youth subculture. When I was around 16 I began to hang out in Piazza del Pantheon, a very central and famous square in Rome, where on Saturdays the local metal fauna met. I spent most of my week there – losing one year of school due to it – and there were metal kids, punks, rockabillies, all hanging together. Our ‘enemies’ were the ‘fascists’, who sometimes beat those of us they found alone. And the police… well, they didn’t like the long-hairs.
At that time there were at least three very good record stores in Rome: Mille Records close to Termini Station, Disfunzioni Musicali, and Revolver. So we usually moved from one store to another, ending our day at the Pantheon where about a hundred people gathered. Then it was more and more tape trading, "hear this", "hear that", and that’s how we formed our metal ‘culture’. Of course nowadays, none of these record stores survive and the Pantheon is a place for tourists only.
Have your tastes changed since then, or have you continued on the same path? Do they stretch into extreme metal for example, or was the traditional sound always what spoke to you most?
I must admit that for a period I lost sight of heavy metal in the late 80s/early 90s. We grew up, friends were moving, you begin to make new friends, girlfriends… death metal was exploding, the awful crossover bands were pushed as ‘metal’. In the mid/late 80s I discovered NEW MODEL ARMY and it was love at first sight. I became obsessed with them; it was their best period, between “The Ghost of Cain” and “Thunder and Consolation”. They somehow looked more ‘metal’ in their attitude than some of the actual scene. I recognized myself more in NMA than in POISON or GUNS AND ROSES. I was also in a confused period of my life that ended up with me moving to Argentina in 1994. I really wasn’t sure about what I was going to do with my life – I even worked as an apprentice in a trade-bank briefly, but it was extremely demanding physically and mentally, and I quit after a few months.
I liked some of the early death metal movement, but since my idea of metal begins with a good singer and guitars, I couldn’t really understand the woof-woof singing. My loss maybe.
Did you ever learn instruments and play in any bands, or were you always more of a listener?
I tried to play bass for a short while. Some friends and I decided we wanted to set up a doom metal band – we were going to be called HIGHGATE GRAVES – but we only rehearsed for a couple of months. I have no musical ear at all, so when you talk to me about how great this or that band sounds, don’t hit me with technical stuff! My taste is based on instinct. I either like something or I don’t.
What inspired you to start Cruz Del Sur in 2003, and what were its beginnings? Were there any record labels you looked up to as good examples of their kind?
Before I moved to Argentina, a friend and I already had a small record label in Rome which I called Regress Records (before that it was called ‘Better Than Them’ – guess why!). We did some 7’’s from ARPIA, INVERTED from Sweden and SARNATH from Finland. I financed the first NOVEMBERS DOOM album, but later had to ‘sell’ it to my friend Roberto of Avantgarde Music because I was moving to South America.
Anyway, in Argentina I started a label with a guy named Carlos, who nobody liked because he is Peruvian. There was racism towards him, but to me, they were all the same: South Americans hahaha! Well that was the beginning of Icarus Music, which has since become the biggest metal label in Argentina, and one of the biggest in South America. Of course that happened when I moved back to Italy in 2002, after the terrible economic crisis that hit the country.
Back in Rome I still wanted to do something, and had brought back with me the master of PHARAOH’s ‘After the Fire’, which was originally to be released by Icarus Music. A very young Chris Black wrote to us because of DAWNBRINGER, and Icarus ended up releasing their first album. But he also mentioned he had another band: a heavy metal studio project with the CONTROL DENIED singer on it! He sent us his IRON MAIDEN tribute with their version of Aces High and man, it was LOVE.
In terms of other labels, when I was still only a fan I became obsessed with Black Dragon Records. They had the best roster, the best cover art! I used to buy all their records regardless of which band it was. But man, MANILLA ROAD, EXXPLORER, LIEGE LORD… wow! Early Metal Blade was also a source of inspiration of course, but I’d stick with Black Dragon if I had to name one influential label.
Presumably there was a moment where you took the plunge and decided to make CDS a full-time project. That must have been a big step – what were your considerations at the time, and did things go how you hoped at first?
Well as I said, I had my contacts when I moved back to Italy so I started talking with them about setting up a label in Italy, and I remember clearly that one distributor I was working with told me “you are crazy! Don’t do that!”. To be honest the early years weren’t fun at all; the music business is like a closed circle, you have a first good release but no distribution, and the distributors won’t take you in because you don’t have a catalogue. So it was nearly impossible to set the business up in the way I hoped. I also released some stuff that was exploring different styles than traditional metal, but I later decided to stick with US/traditional metal because it was the genre I most loved and knew.
I would say the early releases of HAMMERS OF MISFORTUNE, SLOUGH FEG, CRESCENT SHIELD and PHARAOH kind of established our profile – suddenly people realized there was this label with the strange name releasing good stuff.
How important was the internet to your activities when you started CDS, compared to now? Have you witnessed a dramatic change since then, or just a steady development? I’m guessing the biggest factor now is social media, but how important have other platforms like Bandcamp and Spotify become?
Well we threw out a lot of money in the early years pressing and sending out physical promos. Now there are these great and helpful platforms to spread promotional files digitally. Some people still do not understand that, but now digital promos are definitely accepted.
Bandcamp is the best gift the internet could have given us: a free platform to spread your music at a high quality… what more could we ask for as fans? You don’t need to read reviews, you can get your own idea of how a band sounds. When we started, Myspace was the ‘new thing’, but it was clearly too limited and not so easy to use. I mean, it was if you wanted a basic page, but because people could play with the code and make their pages more “appetizing”, it became a mess in the end.
Social media is of course a great way to spread your news and releases, but you always have to remember you’re a guest there, it’s not your website. I find it ridiculous when people blame Facebook and its regulations. If you don’t like it, work on your own website!
Do you ever lament the decline of heavy metal internet forums? For many people they were once a fertile ground for conversation and new discoveries, and arguably social media has been a poor substitute for that depth of discussion. What are your thoughts, were they ever something you used?
I used to read them of course, but did not participate much. I love it when people talk about music, but I shut up most of the time because I don’t have enough knowledge to tell you about a band lineup or a specific guitar solo.
Social media is more immediate, and we lost the depth of discussion as you say. People seem to think they are free to say whatever comes to their mind in that specific moment, feeling entitled to talk about anything because they know the TRUTH! I use my personal Facebook profile mostly to post shit I like to laugh about. I don’t enjoy or have time for endless discussions with counterparts who think they’re right. But I like to follow other people’s commentary on music.
Have you noticed a change in customers’ tastes over the years? How does the current purchasing climate compare to when CDSM started?
Well bear in mind when we started we didn’t even have an online store. We had our first one in 2006 I guess. I must say that our store is now working well, and we have a decent number of loyal customers who come back every time we release something new. That is much appreciated, because the only way we can make a ‘real’ difference is when people buy the product directly from us. Distributors and mail-orders are all welcome but direct sales are where we get a decent revenue on the product.
In general I think the last few years have seen a resurgence of traditional heavy metal and that’s of course good for us. When we released one of my favourite albums on CDSM, CRESCENT SHIELD’s ‘The Last of My Kind’, we had a really difficult time selling it. The same for HAMMERS OF MISFORTUNE’s ‘The August Engine’. If we released those albums today I think they would sell thrice the numbers they did originally.
How important do you think it is to have a business presence in the metal markets at festivals? Did it help you establish yourself and make contacts, and have you witnessed the metal markets ‘scene’ change over the years?
It is important, especially for us based in Italy. I’m mainly talking about German metal markets of course. The reason why I travel so often to festivals is because they are the perfect place to make relations, to greet people you only see once in a while, to drink a beer together. We’re not businesspeople caring for money only. It would be a big lie to say we’re not interested in the business side because that’s our daily job; we need to make money out of our releases, it’s not a hobby! But we are moved by passion like anyone who is truly involved in the ‘metal scene’, whether as fans, musicians, or whatever.
In this very moment I am in my hotel room in Würzburg. I came here to see ORODRUIN [Hammer of Doom festival, 2019], and last night they really delivered! Besides the business side, it was deeply emotional for me to see them performing live, to see people reacting so well! When people stop you and say good things about the job you’re doing, that’s the most powerful fuel for continuing the label. It’s not money (though that counts), but people’s feedback. So I can never be thankful enough to the fans.
Do you care for classifications like ‘NWOTHM’, or are such things just temporary labels in your view?
Well, it is a bit ‘forced’ of course, but somehow it describes what is going on. In music, especially in metal music, people need labels. Labels are good. True, they simplify things maybe to excess, but they are needed to raise an initial interest.
But when we get bios from bands that say, for example, “we play a mix of gothic, doom and sludge mixed with traditional metal and touches of ethnic”… boom, straight in the dustbin. If you are not able to describe your music with three words, you’re out of our consideration.
What are the pros and cons of being a heavy metal label based in Rome?
I don’t see any pros except for the funny fact that we are considered an ‘exotic’ label as a result, and believe it or not, that helped in getting some good bands signed! Rome was a great city for metal in the 80s, but now it’s all in ruins [some of them noteworthy to be fair! -Ed]. There are some record stores, some good bands and a number of fans. But our main problem, not specifically in Rome but throughout Italy, is that we don’t have a domestic market. The strength of German labels, besides acting in a modern country, is that they can count on a domestic fan base which we don’t have. We sell very few numbers in Italy. In Rome we sell to the same few people so often that sometimes I’m ashamed to charge them!
The Italian metal scene must have a fond place in your heart – what are your favourite Italian gems from yesteryear, and how would you assess the current health of your home country’s scene?
I can answer ASTAROTH without any doubt. The MERCYFUL FATE/ASTAROTH show in 1984 (at a guess) was my first show ever, and the band was out of this world. They had a very professional idea of how a band should sound and look, and when they signed to Rave On Records it was like our people had won the Champions League. They were the first Italian band to ever sign to a foreign label, and they really deserved it because they were the most European-sounding band from our country.
Can you explain the relationship between Cruz Del Sur Music and Gates of Hell Records? What are the origins of Gates of Hell and should it be thought of as a separate entity or a subsidiary?
In 2015 I realized there were a lot of good bands I liked personally and wanted to release, but they did not exactly fit into the Cruz Del Sur Music profile. Specifically those young bands dedicated to bringing forth a revival of the purest 80s sound. You might call it NWOTHM now, though Gates of Hell is not a specific NWOTHM label, it’s more a traditional 80s metal label. I thought it would be a shame not to release such bands just because Cruz Del Sur Music is more identified with epic, US or doom metal. So talking with my friend and coworker Brigida we decided to set up a new label that could give those bands more of a spotlight.
In the beginning a lot of people didn’t understand this, and I read comments like “what’s the difference between these labels?” Six years on, I think it’s pretty clear. Both labels have their own identity which is what we wanted from the beginning. Gates of Hell is not a subsidiary, it’s more of an ‘au pair’ label. We give the bands on Gates of Hell exactly the same opportunities in terms of quality, promotion and marketing. On GOH we are more free to experiment, release younger bands, make our mistakes without having to repent later. In a way I would say that while Cruz Del Sur is more ‘brains’, GOH is more ‘guts’. Brigida is possibly the most ‘metal’ person I know; she lives for metal. Raised in the 80s, she has a metal culture few others in the world have, and is very narrow-minded in this respect. She possibly doesn’t like any bands that sound like they started after 1987, and we sometimes have hard discussions about this! She’s so passionate that sometimes I have to stop her. I have to look at the business side as well, which she doesn’t always consider, being a fan first and foremost.
What are your thoughts on release formats? Your releases are always high quality and you sometimes opt for things like coloured vinyl, but you do not go for lavish limited editions with boxes, patches, shirts etc. Is this down to personal preference, a commercial consideration of what is best for CDS, or a bit of both?
Well, as I said I started listening to metal as a kid in the 80s, and when we went record shopping we didn’t mind if the sleeve was cut or if the vinyl had the consistency of 400gsm paper! We were there for the music. I remember for example the TWISTED SISTER ‘Come Out And Play’ album, with the Dee Snyder pop-up. I had to buy it two or three times, because every time I took it off my shelf a little piece of Dee’s arms fell off. I have never been a collector, my original albums are unsellable because they are worn out from listening to them. So I never understood that mentality.
This is reflected in our business. We try to offer nice editions worth the money people are spending. Some releases have limited color options (sometimes on the band’s request) while others are just black. I don’t recall many colored vinyls when I was young, I’d say none except some Wild Rags Records stuff. I was more into picture discs, but it seems people appreciate them less today, probably due to their poorer sound quality.
Getting back to your question, also consider that most people buy online today, and we therefore always consider the ‘shipping factor’. I really envy those labels that are able to ship beautifully packaged items with no problems. When we did the limited edition of LUNAR SHADOW’s ‘The Smokeless Fires’ containing the vial [a glass vial filled with Franconian soil and woodland matter -Ed], I would have liked to kill Max – they were a nightmare to pack!! I told him, “Max, you are an artist, a great guy, but next time all black vinyls.”
Finally, what advice would you have to someone thinking of starting a new heavy metal label?
I would just say stick to your tastes, try to be true to your beliefs, do it seriously and not just as a hobby, be driven by passion but try to be realistic with bands, don’t make promises you can’t keep.
The last words are yours...
Thanks so much James for this opportunity, and sorry for taking ages to complete this piece. I am not used to interviews, and now I understand the other side of the game, when I tell bands “answer these interviews quick,” haha!
To your readers I would say THANK YOU for your interest in our work. We don’t take your support for granted and are aware that if it wasn’t for you, we would not be here to do one of the best jobs in the world.
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